Thanks for writing a thoughtful critique (even if it does come with some stingers!).
I found and read this post because a writer I admired liked it and it showed up in my Notes feed.
Notes is not meant to be a data grab. That’s not our business. Our business is helping writers make money—because that’s how we as a company make money and then get to build all the things that hopefully result in a better media ecosystem.
Notes is intended to be a better discovery system for great writers and writing, and to drive subscriptions to writers. In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter, which really are data-grab plays and are based on rules that care a lot about maximizing revenue and very little about healthy discourse or the quality of a writer’s life. We want that system to change and to be tilted in favor of writers. That’s what Substack is all about.
We’re in the very early days with Notes and the app in general. We’re always looking to improve and serve writers better. Critiques like this help and show us what to aspire to.
I came to Substack over 3 years ago and this is all spot on. My writing has stayed pretty much the same. I have a few thousand subscribers, not many of them paid. And I've made a commitment to resist doing what Substack says I should do, which is to market myself ALL THE TIME. No. That's not what I want.
I've also found that there are a few Substacks who position themselves as having the key to success and using that to gain paid subscribers. They give me MLM vibes. Substack loves them and lifts them up bc things like that increase their bottom line.
I've also noticed that pretty much no one on here grew their community on Substack alone. May folks with the orange check marks already had wide readerships or followings on other platforms, or are well known writers or public figures. Many of them received grants from Substack or were paid to start their Substack. No shade at all- many of these folks are incredible and I love them and their writing. But after having been here for so long I stopped believing that I can support myself as a writer here, and I also don't want to, because once you have a massive amount of paying subscribers you are beholden to them in ways that can (but don't always) detract from your own creative work, especially if you're doing work that requires long-term focus and development.
I love my little community of readers, but I know that they love me for me. Just for what I do. I don't write FOR them. I tried to do this for a little bit and the funny thing is that my work wasn't as good or authentic. In this way I think that Substack can be a lovely place of connection. We don't necessarily have to buy in to what the platform is selling, but not doing so may also mean accepting that our growth here is limited. I have a book coming out in a couple years so I do know that things could change, but that has nothing to do with Substack really! I think it's dishonest for anyone, including Substack, to purport that every single person can make a living here. It's just not true. And any Substackers who also perpetuate that myth are filling their pockets with people's mostly unfulfilled hopes and dreams, which imo is unethical, but whatevs, I guess they've got it figured out bc they're making way more money than me!
Holy shit. Number 1) I did not expect to see my name up there lol!! I feel like I made it. (Thank u for reading me!!) number 2) this was an EXCELLENT essay. Wowowow. So many thoughts. I feel like I came to substack sort of late and haven’t paid much attention to the actual app itself but I have noticed lately an influx of notes usage. I sort of have to log off from it often because I get overwhelmed and feel like I HAVE to be posting on there. What is that!? How does it have that affect? I guess fear of being left out? Anyway. Yeah it has been super interesting to watch. But fascinating stuff you wrote here! Also the end gave me so much inspo and hope and made me want to start a local zine because you are so right!!!!
Nov 22, 2023·edited Nov 22, 2023Liked by Cydney Hayes
So glad I stumbled upon your post...best piece I've read in a while. I got onto Substack with no interest in making any money, but just saw it as a user-friendly platform for putting out our writing. But it's all too easy to get drawn into the likes/restacks/'how can we boost our subs?' cycle? Thanks for the reminder...
Great piece! I recently learned that Substack offers classes on stuff like how to write sellable essays. There are also things like Substack growth consultant! I still like Substack because it's a place to put my writing and a good way to meet other like-minded people, but it's also selling an impossible dream. Kind of like MFA programs. At least it's a lot cheaper.
Agree with your last paragraph. My biggest hope for Substack is that I'll meet people with similar writing tastes and ambitions. Even better if they live near where I live. Then maybe we can really start something.
Cydney -- I'd wager your subscriber numbers got a boost from this, which is awesome. From what I've been able to gather, the vast majority of undiscovered writers here are bump-worthy.
Speaking of vibe, I've got some benevolent energy lately pulling me toward folks who really want to operate outside the system. Or parts of the system. Maybe it's that we're clamoring for attention from the wrong sources, or from sources that were never capable of giving us real attention, emotional attention, heart-seeing. Anyway, here comes your post (ahem...via Notes) and here I go smiling a knowing smile again, because it's on theme.
Yes to real connections, to face-to-face conversations (take that, introversion!), to giving less of a damn what anyone else thinks or how well the algorithm thinks I'm doing. To quote you from another post: "But you know, every time I really lean into what I’m really into, my true aesthetic, I never feel ugly. I always feel hot when I’m being me!"
I hope you and Hamish really do get that coffee. ☕️
cYDNEY! Sorry my caps lock was on but the sentiment remains the same. This is so good and I think really captures the general feeling of what Substack is becoming. I feel like I'm reading less on Substack and actually staying off the website more because I don't want to get sucked into Notes...
ANYHOO I also think that what you say about IRL stuff at the end is the key, here. I think we are all craving to just exist and connect with people and the best way to do it is in person. As a musician I get to play gigs on a regular basis and talk to people face-to-face, sell my merch and get newsletter signups. That's so much more valuable than being active on Notes, for me.
Ugh, this is outstanding. What a perfect distillation of the vibe shift.
I've been on Substack for five years now, and Notes is my most hated feature. I mourned the loss of Twitter, but Notes isn't even a sufficient replacement for it — it feels like the worst collective circle-jerk possible.
Anyway, you have a new reader. I look forward to having you in my inbox.
I was a skinny girl who always wanted thicker legs. Stop digging for gold and sell some picks and axes. Keep doing what you are doing! You have a lot to say. I have been trying to find something that I can really sit down and exposit on as the list gets longer or I get scooped or something but like Kanye used to say ,.." when you try hard- that's when you die hard..". Have you ever seen Field of Dreams where the line if you build it they will come is repeated. It's where a guy builds a ball field in the middle of a cornfield in a town where a land baron is trying to buy up the little guy and eventually people come, in very different ways after a series of struggles. You'd have to watch it and Kevin Costners still hot in it and it's extra awesome if you happen to love baseball like I do. I highly recommend it. Stop trying to be the next "it girl" because you're the shit girl. Don't ever stop being original. Keep doing YOUR thing and remember imitation is the best form of flattery. Just keep on and you will get to your goals. I really like what you said about how notes is a feared step away but I have faith and I think there's so many of us here that got away from the other " media that wants our attention like crack for that sweet data" I'm hoping that as you say Hamish and Co will stay true to the game. Just keep doing you. At least you can sit still for extended periods of time and spit game like you did here. Kudos for a good read. Please don't get discouraged because you inspired me and I thought I was late to the game but there's extra innings and double headers and series..I'll seriously go down a sports analogy rabbit hole but all I'm trying to say is keep going especially when you feel like giving up. I will say I'm not seeing my favorite writers and it's looking like the algorithm is needing a tweak in certain aspects and that's why it's feeling that way but don't forget to trip the machine. I'm writing this when I should be making tacos for dinner and getting my kitchen ready and all that but you inspired this girl. So that in my book is awesome. Never give up!! I like your skirt!!
This was excellent Cydney. I really resonate with the distaste and ickyness of marketing yourself & it’s a big reason I got off twitter.
I find I still spend 95% of my time on Substack reading long form essays and Notes is a good tool for discovery (how I found this and 1-2 high quality essays every day).
No perfect solution but I am very optimistic about Substack and the experience on Notes is so much better than Twitter.
Thank you for writing this :) best essay I’ve read in a while
I started Substack to write letters to my son. I thought having the audience would help me be consistent provide pressure to produce letters that would be written well. While it’s working well for me, I know I’m being sucked into a machine of trying to gain more readership. I genuinely think people will enjoy my work. But you’re right, the hoops I have to go through to get there there has some long term impact: I’m on the app a lot, I start comparing myself to others, and feel moved to share others work because they share mine.
I have to continue to remind myself why I started this work. At the same time, I want people to pay because I plan on using the funds for my son’s college plan. It’s a tough balance. You gave me a lot to think about.
Your post has given me a good deal to think about, so Thank You!
But, I think my perspective diverges from yours in some ways.
I'm on Substack as a writer, and a reader. As a reader, I find Notes to be of great value. I'm subscribed to a ton of newsletters, usually once in the morning and again in the evening, I go through all I'm subscribed to and read what interests me. Then I switch over to Notes, in search of other good things to read. And I find those good things to read. In fact, that's how I found this essay.
As a writer, I don't find nearly as much value in Notes. I was here long before Notes and when it opened, I noticed a good uptick in subscribers. But that uptick was matched by a downtick in open rates, and my paid subscribers didn't really change. All that was fairly easy to track. I picked up some engaged subscribers that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but not many. So, I use Notes, but as a reader, not as a writer.
Where I truly agree with your essay is in its conclusion. Your thoughts that we get offline and outside. I've got a lot fewer paid subscribers than I'd like, but a lot more than most. Those paid subscribers came to my newsletter not because of whatever I might do on Notes or other Social Platforms, they came because of what I do offline. Out in the real world. That stuff is what translates to paid subscriptions here, at least in my experience.
This is brilliant! Thank you for voicing what I’ve been feeling and ranting about in private but too afraid to say (for fear of upsetting the Substack lords!!)
The app becoming to numbers obsessed and people posting their charts of growth etc etc etc has been really bumming me out recently and stopping me from writing (I touched upon it here: https://catrionainnes.substack.com/p/how-career-comparison-stole-my-joy ) I don’t even know if that link will work in a clickable way so bad I am at being able to play the promotey game... I am presuming so, anyway... you’re so right about moving offline and into the real world. Thank you thank you xxxxx
Soooo, fun fact: I started reading this article because someone on my feed restacked it. Imagine my surprise when I see my name mentioned lol. Thank you for reading and thank you for the feature!
This was a great piece and reflects my own sentiments on the matter. I arrived relatively late to substack (almost a year ago) so I don’t know what it was like in the early days, but I can imagine the excitement in “getting in on the ground floor” as well as the disappointment in seeing the founders make some questionable decisions. For now, I love it here but I do sense that shift and it’s unsettling. This is the one place I’ve felt like I didn’t have to pray to the almighty algorithm.
I read this on my train ride home and as I got off at my stop, the app refreshed and I thought I had lost it. I searched every term I could remember (incl. elite capture) but nothing came up. I asked via Notes (the irony) and someone surfaced it. Thanks for writing something so thought-provoking. Subscribed!!
I'll just say...well written. I touched on this recently in a piece and then scrolling through notes I found out I wasn't the only one feeling this. Loved your advice. Good vibes your way.
Thanks for writing a thoughtful critique (even if it does come with some stingers!).
I found and read this post because a writer I admired liked it and it showed up in my Notes feed.
Notes is not meant to be a data grab. That’s not our business. Our business is helping writers make money—because that’s how we as a company make money and then get to build all the things that hopefully result in a better media ecosystem.
Notes is intended to be a better discovery system for great writers and writing, and to drive subscriptions to writers. In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter, which really are data-grab plays and are based on rules that care a lot about maximizing revenue and very little about healthy discourse or the quality of a writer’s life. We want that system to change and to be tilted in favor of writers. That’s what Substack is all about.
We’re in the very early days with Notes and the app in general. We’re always looking to improve and serve writers better. Critiques like this help and show us what to aspire to.
I came to Substack over 3 years ago and this is all spot on. My writing has stayed pretty much the same. I have a few thousand subscribers, not many of them paid. And I've made a commitment to resist doing what Substack says I should do, which is to market myself ALL THE TIME. No. That's not what I want.
I've also found that there are a few Substacks who position themselves as having the key to success and using that to gain paid subscribers. They give me MLM vibes. Substack loves them and lifts them up bc things like that increase their bottom line.
I've also noticed that pretty much no one on here grew their community on Substack alone. May folks with the orange check marks already had wide readerships or followings on other platforms, or are well known writers or public figures. Many of them received grants from Substack or were paid to start their Substack. No shade at all- many of these folks are incredible and I love them and their writing. But after having been here for so long I stopped believing that I can support myself as a writer here, and I also don't want to, because once you have a massive amount of paying subscribers you are beholden to them in ways that can (but don't always) detract from your own creative work, especially if you're doing work that requires long-term focus and development.
I love my little community of readers, but I know that they love me for me. Just for what I do. I don't write FOR them. I tried to do this for a little bit and the funny thing is that my work wasn't as good or authentic. In this way I think that Substack can be a lovely place of connection. We don't necessarily have to buy in to what the platform is selling, but not doing so may also mean accepting that our growth here is limited. I have a book coming out in a couple years so I do know that things could change, but that has nothing to do with Substack really! I think it's dishonest for anyone, including Substack, to purport that every single person can make a living here. It's just not true. And any Substackers who also perpetuate that myth are filling their pockets with people's mostly unfulfilled hopes and dreams, which imo is unethical, but whatevs, I guess they've got it figured out bc they're making way more money than me!
Holy shit. Number 1) I did not expect to see my name up there lol!! I feel like I made it. (Thank u for reading me!!) number 2) this was an EXCELLENT essay. Wowowow. So many thoughts. I feel like I came to substack sort of late and haven’t paid much attention to the actual app itself but I have noticed lately an influx of notes usage. I sort of have to log off from it often because I get overwhelmed and feel like I HAVE to be posting on there. What is that!? How does it have that affect? I guess fear of being left out? Anyway. Yeah it has been super interesting to watch. But fascinating stuff you wrote here! Also the end gave me so much inspo and hope and made me want to start a local zine because you are so right!!!!
So glad I stumbled upon your post...best piece I've read in a while. I got onto Substack with no interest in making any money, but just saw it as a user-friendly platform for putting out our writing. But it's all too easy to get drawn into the likes/restacks/'how can we boost our subs?' cycle? Thanks for the reminder...
Great piece! I recently learned that Substack offers classes on stuff like how to write sellable essays. There are also things like Substack growth consultant! I still like Substack because it's a place to put my writing and a good way to meet other like-minded people, but it's also selling an impossible dream. Kind of like MFA programs. At least it's a lot cheaper.
Agree with your last paragraph. My biggest hope for Substack is that I'll meet people with similar writing tastes and ambitions. Even better if they live near where I live. Then maybe we can really start something.
Cydney -- I'd wager your subscriber numbers got a boost from this, which is awesome. From what I've been able to gather, the vast majority of undiscovered writers here are bump-worthy.
Speaking of vibe, I've got some benevolent energy lately pulling me toward folks who really want to operate outside the system. Or parts of the system. Maybe it's that we're clamoring for attention from the wrong sources, or from sources that were never capable of giving us real attention, emotional attention, heart-seeing. Anyway, here comes your post (ahem...via Notes) and here I go smiling a knowing smile again, because it's on theme.
Yes to real connections, to face-to-face conversations (take that, introversion!), to giving less of a damn what anyone else thinks or how well the algorithm thinks I'm doing. To quote you from another post: "But you know, every time I really lean into what I’m really into, my true aesthetic, I never feel ugly. I always feel hot when I’m being me!"
I hope you and Hamish really do get that coffee. ☕️
cYDNEY! Sorry my caps lock was on but the sentiment remains the same. This is so good and I think really captures the general feeling of what Substack is becoming. I feel like I'm reading less on Substack and actually staying off the website more because I don't want to get sucked into Notes...
ANYHOO I also think that what you say about IRL stuff at the end is the key, here. I think we are all craving to just exist and connect with people and the best way to do it is in person. As a musician I get to play gigs on a regular basis and talk to people face-to-face, sell my merch and get newsletter signups. That's so much more valuable than being active on Notes, for me.
Ugh, this is outstanding. What a perfect distillation of the vibe shift.
I've been on Substack for five years now, and Notes is my most hated feature. I mourned the loss of Twitter, but Notes isn't even a sufficient replacement for it — it feels like the worst collective circle-jerk possible.
Anyway, you have a new reader. I look forward to having you in my inbox.
I was a skinny girl who always wanted thicker legs. Stop digging for gold and sell some picks and axes. Keep doing what you are doing! You have a lot to say. I have been trying to find something that I can really sit down and exposit on as the list gets longer or I get scooped or something but like Kanye used to say ,.." when you try hard- that's when you die hard..". Have you ever seen Field of Dreams where the line if you build it they will come is repeated. It's where a guy builds a ball field in the middle of a cornfield in a town where a land baron is trying to buy up the little guy and eventually people come, in very different ways after a series of struggles. You'd have to watch it and Kevin Costners still hot in it and it's extra awesome if you happen to love baseball like I do. I highly recommend it. Stop trying to be the next "it girl" because you're the shit girl. Don't ever stop being original. Keep doing YOUR thing and remember imitation is the best form of flattery. Just keep on and you will get to your goals. I really like what you said about how notes is a feared step away but I have faith and I think there's so many of us here that got away from the other " media that wants our attention like crack for that sweet data" I'm hoping that as you say Hamish and Co will stay true to the game. Just keep doing you. At least you can sit still for extended periods of time and spit game like you did here. Kudos for a good read. Please don't get discouraged because you inspired me and I thought I was late to the game but there's extra innings and double headers and series..I'll seriously go down a sports analogy rabbit hole but all I'm trying to say is keep going especially when you feel like giving up. I will say I'm not seeing my favorite writers and it's looking like the algorithm is needing a tweak in certain aspects and that's why it's feeling that way but don't forget to trip the machine. I'm writing this when I should be making tacos for dinner and getting my kitchen ready and all that but you inspired this girl. So that in my book is awesome. Never give up!! I like your skirt!!
This was excellent Cydney. I really resonate with the distaste and ickyness of marketing yourself & it’s a big reason I got off twitter.
I find I still spend 95% of my time on Substack reading long form essays and Notes is a good tool for discovery (how I found this and 1-2 high quality essays every day).
No perfect solution but I am very optimistic about Substack and the experience on Notes is so much better than Twitter.
Thank you for writing this :) best essay I’ve read in a while
I started Substack to write letters to my son. I thought having the audience would help me be consistent provide pressure to produce letters that would be written well. While it’s working well for me, I know I’m being sucked into a machine of trying to gain more readership. I genuinely think people will enjoy my work. But you’re right, the hoops I have to go through to get there there has some long term impact: I’m on the app a lot, I start comparing myself to others, and feel moved to share others work because they share mine.
I have to continue to remind myself why I started this work. At the same time, I want people to pay because I plan on using the funds for my son’s college plan. It’s a tough balance. You gave me a lot to think about.
Your post has given me a good deal to think about, so Thank You!
But, I think my perspective diverges from yours in some ways.
I'm on Substack as a writer, and a reader. As a reader, I find Notes to be of great value. I'm subscribed to a ton of newsletters, usually once in the morning and again in the evening, I go through all I'm subscribed to and read what interests me. Then I switch over to Notes, in search of other good things to read. And I find those good things to read. In fact, that's how I found this essay.
As a writer, I don't find nearly as much value in Notes. I was here long before Notes and when it opened, I noticed a good uptick in subscribers. But that uptick was matched by a downtick in open rates, and my paid subscribers didn't really change. All that was fairly easy to track. I picked up some engaged subscribers that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but not many. So, I use Notes, but as a reader, not as a writer.
Where I truly agree with your essay is in its conclusion. Your thoughts that we get offline and outside. I've got a lot fewer paid subscribers than I'd like, but a lot more than most. Those paid subscribers came to my newsletter not because of whatever I might do on Notes or other Social Platforms, they came because of what I do offline. Out in the real world. That stuff is what translates to paid subscriptions here, at least in my experience.
This is brilliant! Thank you for voicing what I’ve been feeling and ranting about in private but too afraid to say (for fear of upsetting the Substack lords!!)
The app becoming to numbers obsessed and people posting their charts of growth etc etc etc has been really bumming me out recently and stopping me from writing (I touched upon it here: https://catrionainnes.substack.com/p/how-career-comparison-stole-my-joy ) I don’t even know if that link will work in a clickable way so bad I am at being able to play the promotey game... I am presuming so, anyway... you’re so right about moving offline and into the real world. Thank you thank you xxxxx
Soooo, fun fact: I started reading this article because someone on my feed restacked it. Imagine my surprise when I see my name mentioned lol. Thank you for reading and thank you for the feature!
This was a great piece and reflects my own sentiments on the matter. I arrived relatively late to substack (almost a year ago) so I don’t know what it was like in the early days, but I can imagine the excitement in “getting in on the ground floor” as well as the disappointment in seeing the founders make some questionable decisions. For now, I love it here but I do sense that shift and it’s unsettling. This is the one place I’ve felt like I didn’t have to pray to the almighty algorithm.
I read this on my train ride home and as I got off at my stop, the app refreshed and I thought I had lost it. I searched every term I could remember (incl. elite capture) but nothing came up. I asked via Notes (the irony) and someone surfaced it. Thanks for writing something so thought-provoking. Subscribed!!
I'll just say...well written. I touched on this recently in a piece and then scrolling through notes I found out I wasn't the only one feeling this. Loved your advice. Good vibes your way.