Thanks for writing a thoughtful critique (even if it does come with some stingers!).
I found and read this post because a writer I admired liked it and it showed up in my Notes feed.
Notes is not meant to be a data grab. That’s not our business. Our business is helping writers make money—because that’s how we as a company make money and then get to build all the things that hopefully result in a better media ecosystem.
Notes is intended to be a better discovery system for great writers and writing, and to drive subscriptions to writers. In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter, which really are data-grab plays and are based on rules that care a lot about maximizing revenue and very little about healthy discourse or the quality of a writer’s life. We want that system to change and to be tilted in favor of writers. That’s what Substack is all about.
We’re in the very early days with Notes and the app in general. We’re always looking to improve and serve writers better. Critiques like this help and show us what to aspire to.
Hamish - very considerate of you to read and respond, and glad you're taking everyone's suggestions into account! so interesting to hear your perspective firsthand, and fwiw i also live in sf. in the spirit of taking things offline, if you ever want to chat substack over coffee, im down. email me whenever! alisoncydneyhayes@gmail.com
A lot of this resonates. I have discovered some new-to-me writers via notes and am glad for that. There are just so many of us. I found your post in the “top in category” list, which is nice. Definitely lots of lines here to share and restack.... which feels counter to the point! (I’m glad to see many of the commenters note they were directed here from a note.)
Hamish, I'm impressed and happy that you're willing to meet up with a "critic".
I see Cydney Hayes' point about the feeling of "vibe shift" and "elite capture". In my view it comes with the need to attract and promote prominent influencers in order to get views, subscriptions, and pay the bills for SubStack to exist. It's a necessity for growth and survival, but it still makes us little grass-roots writers worry that we won't have enough sunlight for growth. As long as we can stay confident that the algorithms won't bury us, and that we can make ourselves search-'n-findable it's all good. Now working to attain the proper Notes / Real-life balance.
Sorry the location won't work for you this time. We'll aim for another meetup early next year. Most of the responses this time around were from people in SF or the East Bay, so Oakland made sense...
Was looking forward to the Meetup but see it's been moved to Oakland, sadly way too far for me. Enjoy and hopefully we can do something in the South Bay sometime.
Sorry you won't be able to join us. We found a great venue & Oakland seemed like a good location for the first one based on responses. We'll aim for another meetup early next year. I haven't yet heard a lot of interest from the south bay per se, mostly East Bay and SF proper.
Respectfully, you surely realise how distracting notes is! It's the addictive scrolly bit, and addictive sort of equals success for the platform, doesn't it? And kryptonite for those of us who have studiously avoided social media for years because we know how hard it is not to fall down The Hole.
I held my breath as I read Cyndey's piece, and then held it again as I read your thoughtful replies. As a writer who is in LOVE with being a writer on Substack, Notes never fails to make me feel hopeless and discouraged.
I hear you! Lately, I found myself posting my newsletter and then "ghosting" because I feel overwhelmed by Notes. And overwhelm was the reason I moved away from Instagram. I feel bad about not being in the app, not looking at Notes, not posting comments... I started feeling all the social media pressure. This resulted not reading the newsletters anymore, too.
Oh no, that's terrible. Have you tried using an RSS feed reader instead? That's what I do now to give myself some sanity. It's so much less overwhelming via an RSS reader.
Hamish, it’s cool that you would respond to this post and take its feedback seriously. I don’t see this type of outreach from people on other platforms. I unfortunately see the majority of non-famous writers who still have to work leaving Substack in less than a year due to the lack of economic incentive we have to remain + our lack of internal boasting.
People like @librarianofcelaeno compile the best posts of writers with under 1K followers. Would Substack consider rolling out a feature like this? It would increase the userbase and incentive non-famous writers to remain on Substack. See here:
Totally right. The tools are there, we just need a leaderboard for substacks under 1000 subscribers. That would give the leg up and give discoverability to the talent on the up.
There are certain things I like about Notes, and certain others I do not. That's to be expected--one platform simply cannot satisfy everyone. I'm familiar with tech platform buildouts to know how hard it is to build and test use cases and integrate user feedback, so I appreciate what the Substack team is doing. The fact Hamish is here in the weeds responding speaks volumes.
I am new to this platform as a place to host my newsletter. And I came here thinking “what is this Notes thing?” I’m confused! Not a huge fan of it being the default view. What if you created the ability to make either articles from writers you subscribe to or Notes your default feed? That would allow users to use the platform the way that suits them best. I would set mine to my subscriptions but pop over to Notes once in a while to find new writers and engage with the community.
You can nudge users to avoid spending too much time on notes by subtlety slowing the load time of more timeline each time they hit the end of it and load more.
Research shows this little bit of friction will get people to voluntarily stop scrolling.
PLEASE do this! It's taking away from everything I loved when I came onto this platform. I came here for longish-form thoughtful writing. I liked it when it was just my inbox.
I love notes and chance to restack...it’s where we meet like-minded folks, where we feel seen ourselves with one little post someone liked! Pay attention to regular people, admin team...not just loudest voices or well-known names.
Hi Hamish, I'm really liking Substack because I can meet great writers, learn about topics I'm really interested in, speak my mind without getting banned, and tap into the global pulse of what's happening around the world. I spend 1-2 hours on this platform everyday and am so grateful for what's available here.
I have only one complaint about how Substack works, it's the search function. To me, it's almost useless. Please make it better so I can search by keywords, phrases that will take me to writers I'm not currently following. Thank you.
Cydney’s critique is spot on - your reply smacks of rationalization & virtue.
As for me, you need to (1) Do something about the comments sections, they need some rules or etiquette; & when there’s anything more than 100 comments, forget it. You would have to be crazy to go through 867 comments - sure you will find a few really good ones, but how did you spend your day?
(2) Your business model needs work. If I paid for all of the stacks that I subscribe to it would cost me about $400 per month. If you really cared for small writers, you would devise some kind of unit price per article, or group / batch pricing . . Let some little guy charge $1 a month for a start up period, don’t force a $5 minimum.
(3) You need to post / update a clear explanation as to how to manage your account (on both the website and app) . . It keeps changing - and make monthly, not founders, the default subscription.
I’m all for giving writers whatever they need, and I read a lot of substack writers, although only subscribe with money to one (wish I could do more!) But as a reader, my two cents is that the old format was sooo much better. Easier to use, more direct, less clumsy, less cluttered. Much calmer! I have to avoid Substack now just to take care of my nervous system. Don’t laugh, I’m very sensitive lol! But seriously, this is real.
Hamish, I know you all work really hard. And I so appreciate your engaging here and in many other places. It's nice to see you doing this. I will personally say that I'm grateful for Substack, though of course I have critiques, because everyone does, about everything. I think this is a huge growth spurt, but without Substack I know that I'd be...idk. In my room writing on paper and not talking to anyone, because I left all other forms of social media. I mean, I still write on paper, alone, in my room, but being able to be here as well is really special, to be real about it.
Notes made me start looking for alternative places to write. It fundamentally destroys what made substack good.
Substack is now just another shallow addictive noise machine. The STRUCTURE now incentivizes all the things substack was once a reprieve from and You leaving a nice comment does absolutely nothing to change that.
“In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter” translation: We saw other people making money we could make, had no respect for staying in our lane, and have ruined our product while telling the users it was “for their own good”.
except twitter and instagram are notoriously bad for conversions, aren't they? so in lieu of twitter and instagram we get another "bad at conversions" copycat? certainly there's a better way. or maybe not. most of us are writing for ourselves in any event. face it.
Would love for y’all to roll back the last app update. I hate it as a reader, except for being able to toggle the paid and unpaid publications, that part is good, but I hate the smaller size of posts and thumbnails in the inbox, and the whole notes as homepage thing. Really made me use the app less.
The fiction category is a mess in general ... I wish we could sort by genre, or have some kind of way to find new writers besides scrolling endlessly down the page.
I’m not a writer, just a reader and I feel the same way. It seems that half of the Notes feed is writers asking other writers how to get more subscribers.
I came to Substack over 3 years ago and this is all spot on. My writing has stayed pretty much the same. I have a few thousand subscribers, not many of them paid. And I've made a commitment to resist doing what Substack says I should do, which is to market myself ALL THE TIME. No. That's not what I want.
I've also found that there are a few Substacks who position themselves as having the key to success and using that to gain paid subscribers. They give me MLM vibes. Substack loves them and lifts them up bc things like that increase their bottom line.
I've also noticed that pretty much no one on here grew their community on Substack alone. May folks with the orange check marks already had wide readerships or followings on other platforms, or are well known writers or public figures. Many of them received grants from Substack or were paid to start their Substack. No shade at all- many of these folks are incredible and I love them and their writing. But after having been here for so long I stopped believing that I can support myself as a writer here, and I also don't want to, because once you have a massive amount of paying subscribers you are beholden to them in ways that can (but don't always) detract from your own creative work, especially if you're doing work that requires long-term focus and development.
I love my little community of readers, but I know that they love me for me. Just for what I do. I don't write FOR them. I tried to do this for a little bit and the funny thing is that my work wasn't as good or authentic. In this way I think that Substack can be a lovely place of connection. We don't necessarily have to buy in to what the platform is selling, but not doing so may also mean accepting that our growth here is limited. I have a book coming out in a couple years so I do know that things could change, but that has nothing to do with Substack really! I think it's dishonest for anyone, including Substack, to purport that every single person can make a living here. It's just not true. And any Substackers who also perpetuate that myth are filling their pockets with people's mostly unfulfilled hopes and dreams, which imo is unethical, but whatevs, I guess they've got it figured out bc they're making way more money than me!
This is what I’ve been thinking. I think you’re spot on with this. In many ways, I’m a fledgling writer. I hadn’t written a think before October 2019. I started my Substack in order to gain an audience, and while a few (maybe 10) people followed me here from Twitter, the rest of my first subscribers were family. I managed to grow my newsletter to over 400 readers over the year, just from being here, with no other social media to speak of (basically quit Twitter a while ago). For most of the year, Substack has been an amazing experience for me. But I gotta say, ever since Notes launched, my growth has slowed to a crawl. And my mental state got so bad I had to take a six week break starting in October. I love Substack, but I can’t help thinking Notes was a really bad move. So what I’m planning to do this year is to diversify my output and start submitting work to magazines again, in addition to posting regularly on here, and to try to limit my Notes activity. The problem is, ever since the birth of Notes, it’s felt like that is the only avenue for new subscribers right now.
Holy shit. Number 1) I did not expect to see my name up there lol!! I feel like I made it. (Thank u for reading me!!) number 2) this was an EXCELLENT essay. Wowowow. So many thoughts. I feel like I came to substack sort of late and haven’t paid much attention to the actual app itself but I have noticed lately an influx of notes usage. I sort of have to log off from it often because I get overwhelmed and feel like I HAVE to be posting on there. What is that!? How does it have that affect? I guess fear of being left out? Anyway. Yeah it has been super interesting to watch. But fascinating stuff you wrote here! Also the end gave me so much inspo and hope and made me want to start a local zine because you are so right!!!!
BRIANA you are literally one of the writers i admire most on substack, so if that means anything to you then you have indeed made it <3 im so glad you related and YOU SHOULD TOTALLY start a zine!!! or write for mine (｡◕‿◕｡)
This is an interesting discussion. I agree with you on how the vibe has changed, but what does that really mean? Substack was never going to be the promised land. It's the online world! It's crowded. It's crammed with people - many of them creative - all trying to be noticed. The odds are against that, and the more writers that pile on, the more it looks like Times Square on New Year's Eve. So Substack offers Notes as a way to break the logjam, and there you go, it's one more mob.
The online space is awash with beautiful dreamers, somehow hoping to break out and support themselves doing what they love. The fact that so many spend time posting whiny complaints about not getting enough attention is sad, and smells kinda desperate. And nobody subscribed to read that, anymore than they want to look at graphs showing their rising engagement.
Ask any writer who has toiled over a book for years, only to receive more rejection letters than seemed possible. Or a songwriter, dreaming of selling a tune. Pick your platform, youtube, instagram, facebook, twitter. All are filled with marketing lingo, lurid headlines and the like. Soon after the latest Beatles offering, I counted 18 youtubers explaining it. Some videos ran 20 minutes or more to explain a three minute leftover song by a long-gone superstar.
As far as Notes goes: exercise a little self-discipline. Just stop the endless scrolling. Go outside. Take a walk. Leave hour screen alone for a time.
I sympathize with Cydney's disappointment, but am not surprised to read it. This sad song has been in rotation for a long, long time.
Nov 22, 2023·edited Nov 22, 2023Liked by Cydney Hayes
So glad I stumbled upon your post...best piece I've read in a while. I got onto Substack with no interest in making any money, but just saw it as a user-friendly platform for putting out our writing. But it's all too easy to get drawn into the likes/restacks/'how can we boost our subs?' cycle? Thanks for the reminder...
Great piece! I recently learned that Substack offers classes on stuff like how to write sellable essays. There are also things like Substack growth consultant! I still like Substack because it's a place to put my writing and a good way to meet other like-minded people, but it's also selling an impossible dream. Kind of like MFA programs. At least it's a lot cheaper.
Agree with your last paragraph. My biggest hope for Substack is that I'll meet people with similar writing tastes and ambitions. Even better if they live near where I live. Then maybe we can really start something.
yeah i totally agree, like substack is a good place to house my work i don't necessarily want to try to get published elsewhere, but it's getting to the point where it really takes an active effort not to get sucked into the whole social media aspect of it.
and yeah, it's not like there's *no* possibility of making genuine connections w like-minded people/writers via substack. it can be an avenue to that too... but i just think it's not built to foster that bc platforms that make people content and happy don't drive growth lol. so offline we go!!
I think there might be online spaces where people can be happy, but they aren't venture backed. Check out letterboxd in the film space...never raised VC and has been around for 10+ years. I wonder if something like that is needed in this space..
Cydney -- I'd wager your subscriber numbers got a boost from this, which is awesome. From what I've been able to gather, the vast majority of undiscovered writers here are bump-worthy.
Speaking of vibe, I've got some benevolent energy lately pulling me toward folks who really want to operate outside the system. Or parts of the system. Maybe it's that we're clamoring for attention from the wrong sources, or from sources that were never capable of giving us real attention, emotional attention, heart-seeing. Anyway, here comes your post (ahem...via Notes) and here I go smiling a knowing smile again, because it's on theme.
Yes to real connections, to face-to-face conversations (take that, introversion!), to giving less of a damn what anyone else thinks or how well the algorithm thinks I'm doing. To quote you from another post: "But you know, every time I really lean into what I’m really into, my true aesthetic, I never feel ugly. I always feel hot when I’m being me!"
I hope you and Hamish really do get that coffee. ☕️
cYDNEY! Sorry my caps lock was on but the sentiment remains the same. This is so good and I think really captures the general feeling of what Substack is becoming. I feel like I'm reading less on Substack and actually staying off the website more because I don't want to get sucked into Notes...
ANYHOO I also think that what you say about IRL stuff at the end is the key, here. I think we are all craving to just exist and connect with people and the best way to do it is in person. As a musician I get to play gigs on a regular basis and talk to people face-to-face, sell my merch and get newsletter signups. That's so much more valuable than being active on Notes, for me.
100000% - and from your newsletter i know you're doing in person gigs all the time, which is part of the reason i feel like i enjoy your work/align w your worldview! like maybe in-person events don't have the same quantitative rewards as putting stuff online, but i've been thinking about when, for example, i did sf zine fest in september. i got maybe 10 new subscribers from that but also a really rich and fulfilling experience for my life. this article has gotten me like 50 new subscribers, but ultimately it is still just on my computer lol.
i just feel like when im scrolling notes, i often like black in and just think, girl.... what are we doing with our time rn
Ugh, this is outstanding. What a perfect distillation of the vibe shift.
I've been on Substack for five years now, and Notes is my most hated feature. I mourned the loss of Twitter, but Notes isn't even a sufficient replacement for it — it feels like the worst collective circle-jerk possible.
Anyway, you have a new reader. I look forward to having you in my inbox.
I was a skinny girl who always wanted thicker legs. Stop digging for gold and sell some picks and axes. Keep doing what you are doing! You have a lot to say. I have been trying to find something that I can really sit down and exposit on as the list gets longer or I get scooped or something but like Kanye used to say ,.." when you try hard- that's when you die hard..". Have you ever seen Field of Dreams where the line if you build it they will come is repeated. It's where a guy builds a ball field in the middle of a cornfield in a town where a land baron is trying to buy up the little guy and eventually people come, in very different ways after a series of struggles. You'd have to watch it and Kevin Costners still hot in it and it's extra awesome if you happen to love baseball like I do. I highly recommend it. Stop trying to be the next "it girl" because you're the shit girl. Don't ever stop being original. Keep doing YOUR thing and remember imitation is the best form of flattery. Just keep on and you will get to your goals. I really like what you said about how notes is a feared step away but I have faith and I think there's so many of us here that got away from the other " media that wants our attention like crack for that sweet data" I'm hoping that as you say Hamish and Co will stay true to the game. Just keep doing you. At least you can sit still for extended periods of time and spit game like you did here. Kudos for a good read. Please don't get discouraged because you inspired me and I thought I was late to the game but there's extra innings and double headers and series..I'll seriously go down a sports analogy rabbit hole but all I'm trying to say is keep going especially when you feel like giving up. I will say I'm not seeing my favorite writers and it's looking like the algorithm is needing a tweak in certain aspects and that's why it's feeling that way but don't forget to trip the machine. I'm writing this when I should be making tacos for dinner and getting my kitchen ready and all that but you inspired this girl. So that in my book is awesome. Never give up!! I like your skirt!!
Soooo, fun fact: I started reading this article because someone on my feed restacked it. Imagine my surprise when I see my name mentioned lol. Thank you for reading and thank you for the feature!
This was a great piece and reflects my own sentiments on the matter. I arrived relatively late to substack (almost a year ago) so I don’t know what it was like in the early days, but I can imagine the excitement in “getting in on the ground floor” as well as the disappointment in seeing the founders make some questionable decisions. For now, I love it here but I do sense that shift and it’s unsettling. This is the one place I’ve felt like I didn’t have to pray to the almighty algorithm.
ah I’m glad it made its way to you!! I guess thanks, notes lol but yes I read your piece last week and even though it doesn’t take 100% the same perspective I thought it was so interesting and worth including
I started Substack to write letters to my son. I thought having the audience would help me be consistent provide pressure to produce letters that would be written well. While it’s working well for me, I know I’m being sucked into a machine of trying to gain more readership. I genuinely think people will enjoy my work. But you’re right, the hoops I have to go through to get there there has some long term impact: I’m on the app a lot, I start comparing myself to others, and feel moved to share others work because they share mine.
I have to continue to remind myself why I started this work. At the same time, I want people to pay because I plan on using the funds for my son’s college plan. It’s a tough balance. You gave me a lot to think about.
I agree Marc.... I came to Substack for a larger audience to share my writing...and to find more worthy pieces to read! I love finding writers I who have totally different content than mine... yet their writing grabs me! That’s what a reader/writer connection is .. and feels good. But... getting sucked into “enable paid subscribers, seeing it written on profiles how many they have, posting statistics .... it feels wrong. Thank your paying readers, don’t brag to rest of us!
I feel there’s more kindness and genuineness here, a safe place with fellow writers. Yet I’ve had to block a few folks... like the trolls on IG or FB... “can we be friends” etc! Not cool. Notes and restacks of great writing are welcome, but it’s annoying when someone pops in to just say good morning, share a photo, or sell a book. 🤨
I keep scrolling, looking for writers and titles that grab me, make me want to subscribe and read more. Should there be a promote page perhaps? Thanks to @hamish and @substack team for taking all these comments into consideration.
This was excellent Cydney. I really resonate with the distaste and ickyness of marketing yourself & it’s a big reason I got off twitter.
I find I still spend 95% of my time on Substack reading long form essays and Notes is a good tool for discovery (how I found this and 1-2 high quality essays every day).
No perfect solution but I am very optimistic about Substack and the experience on Notes is so much better than Twitter.
Thank you for writing this :) best essay I’ve read in a while
Your post has given me a good deal to think about, so Thank You!
But, I think my perspective diverges from yours in some ways.
I'm on Substack as a writer, and a reader. As a reader, I find Notes to be of great value. I'm subscribed to a ton of newsletters, usually once in the morning and again in the evening, I go through all I'm subscribed to and read what interests me. Then I switch over to Notes, in search of other good things to read. And I find those good things to read. In fact, that's how I found this essay.
As a writer, I don't find nearly as much value in Notes. I was here long before Notes and when it opened, I noticed a good uptick in subscribers. But that uptick was matched by a downtick in open rates, and my paid subscribers didn't really change. All that was fairly easy to track. I picked up some engaged subscribers that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but not many. So, I use Notes, but as a reader, not as a writer.
Where I truly agree with your essay is in its conclusion. Your thoughts that we get offline and outside. I've got a lot fewer paid subscribers than I'd like, but a lot more than most. Those paid subscribers came to my newsletter not because of whatever I might do on Notes or other Social Platforms, they came because of what I do offline. Out in the real world. That stuff is what translates to paid subscriptions here, at least in my experience.
This is brilliant! Thank you for voicing what I’ve been feeling and ranting about in private but too afraid to say (for fear of upsetting the Substack lords!!)
The app becoming to numbers obsessed and people posting their charts of growth etc etc etc has been really bumming me out recently and stopping me from writing (I touched upon it here: https://catrionainnes.substack.com/p/how-career-comparison-stole-my-joy ) I don’t even know if that link will work in a clickable way so bad I am at being able to play the promotey game... I am presuming so, anyway... you’re so right about moving offline and into the real world. Thank you thank you xxxxx
I read this on my train ride home and as I got off at my stop, the app refreshed and I thought I had lost it. I searched every term I could remember (incl. elite capture) but nothing came up. I asked via Notes (the irony) and someone surfaced it. Thanks for writing something so thought-provoking. Subscribed!!
I'll just say...well written. I touched on this recently in a piece and then scrolling through notes I found out I wasn't the only one feeling this. Loved your advice. Good vibes your way.
Thanks for writing a thoughtful critique (even if it does come with some stingers!).
I found and read this post because a writer I admired liked it and it showed up in my Notes feed.
Notes is not meant to be a data grab. That’s not our business. Our business is helping writers make money—because that’s how we as a company make money and then get to build all the things that hopefully result in a better media ecosystem.
Notes is intended to be a better discovery system for great writers and writing, and to drive subscriptions to writers. In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter, which really are data-grab plays and are based on rules that care a lot about maximizing revenue and very little about healthy discourse or the quality of a writer’s life. We want that system to change and to be tilted in favor of writers. That’s what Substack is all about.
We’re in the very early days with Notes and the app in general. We’re always looking to improve and serve writers better. Critiques like this help and show us what to aspire to.
Hamish - very considerate of you to read and respond, and glad you're taking everyone's suggestions into account! so interesting to hear your perspective firsthand, and fwiw i also live in sf. in the spirit of taking things offline, if you ever want to chat substack over coffee, im down. email me whenever! alisoncydneyhayes@gmail.com
I’d love to get coffee. I’ll email you
A lot of this resonates. I have discovered some new-to-me writers via notes and am glad for that. There are just so many of us. I found your post in the “top in category” list, which is nice. Definitely lots of lines here to share and restack.... which feels counter to the point! (I’m glad to see many of the commenters note they were directed here from a note.)
Hamish, I'm impressed and happy that you're willing to meet up with a "critic".
I see Cydney Hayes' point about the feeling of "vibe shift" and "elite capture". In my view it comes with the need to attract and promote prominent influencers in order to get views, subscriptions, and pay the bills for SubStack to exist. It's a necessity for growth and survival, but it still makes us little grass-roots writers worry that we won't have enough sunlight for growth. As long as we can stay confident that the algorithms won't bury us, and that we can make ourselves search-'n-findable it's all good. Now working to attain the proper Notes / Real-life balance.
Best wishes.
This is cool :)
Btw, many of us SF Substack writers will be getting together Dec 6 -- please join us! https://lu.ma/l08hen0k
Ahh so fun! Sadly I'm in south bay and it'd be too far to go after work. Any chance there will be anything hosted further down south?
Sorry the location won't work for you this time. We'll aim for another meetup early next year. Most of the responses this time around were from people in SF or the East Bay, so Oakland made sense...
Was looking forward to the Meetup but see it's been moved to Oakland, sadly way too far for me. Enjoy and hopefully we can do something in the South Bay sometime.
Sorry you won't be able to join us. We found a great venue & Oakland seemed like a good location for the first one based on responses. We'll aim for another meetup early next year. I haven't yet heard a lot of interest from the south bay per se, mostly East Bay and SF proper.
Wish I could join!
Respectfully, you surely realise how distracting notes is! It's the addictive scrolly bit, and addictive sort of equals success for the platform, doesn't it? And kryptonite for those of us who have studiously avoided social media for years because we know how hard it is not to fall down The Hole.
Yes, it’s not for everyone. We’re thinking about ways to give writers more ability to ignore Notes if they choose
would love the homepage just to take me to my inbox.
I held my breath as I read Cyndey's piece, and then held it again as I read your thoughtful replies. As a writer who is in LOVE with being a writer on Substack, Notes never fails to make me feel hopeless and discouraged.
Yeah I feel the same way and used to feel bad about THAT. It's weird.
I hear you! Lately, I found myself posting my newsletter and then "ghosting" because I feel overwhelmed by Notes. And overwhelm was the reason I moved away from Instagram. I feel bad about not being in the app, not looking at Notes, not posting comments... I started feeling all the social media pressure. This resulted not reading the newsletters anymore, too.
Oh no, that's terrible. Have you tried using an RSS feed reader instead? That's what I do now to give myself some sanity. It's so much less overwhelming via an RSS reader.
Hamish, it’s cool that you would respond to this post and take its feedback seriously. I don’t see this type of outreach from people on other platforms. I unfortunately see the majority of non-famous writers who still have to work leaving Substack in less than a year due to the lack of economic incentive we have to remain + our lack of internal boasting.
People like @librarianofcelaeno compile the best posts of writers with under 1K followers. Would Substack consider rolling out a feature like this? It would increase the userbase and incentive non-famous writers to remain on Substack. See here:
https://librarianofcelaeno.substack.com/p/sub-mille
Let me know what you think. :)
We’ll consider everything! We appreciate all feedback like this. Anyone who cares deeply enough to show us what they hope for, we deeply appreciate.
How about banning Nazis? Any plans for that? https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/antisemitism-false-information-and-hate-speech-find-home-substack-0
oh man... wouldn't that be paradise?
I wouldn't even advocate for you to be banned for suggesting others be banned for the heinous crime of writing something you disagree with.
Because I'm not a bitch.
Totally right. The tools are there, we just need a leaderboard for substacks under 1000 subscribers. That would give the leg up and give discoverability to the talent on the up.
Yes!
I would LOVE THIS!!
I wonder if you would ever consider separating the platforms and just leaving some integration between them?
There are certain things I like about Notes, and certain others I do not. That's to be expected--one platform simply cannot satisfy everyone. I'm familiar with tech platform buildouts to know how hard it is to build and test use cases and integrate user feedback, so I appreciate what the Substack team is doing. The fact Hamish is here in the weeds responding speaks volumes.
I like Notes. And I like threads. Both are useful in different ways.
Agreed
I am new to this platform as a place to host my newsletter. And I came here thinking “what is this Notes thing?” I’m confused! Not a huge fan of it being the default view. What if you created the ability to make either articles from writers you subscribe to or Notes your default feed? That would allow users to use the platform the way that suits them best. I would set mine to my subscriptions but pop over to Notes once in a while to find new writers and engage with the community.
You can nudge users to avoid spending too much time on notes by subtlety slowing the load time of more timeline each time they hit the end of it and load more.
Research shows this little bit of friction will get people to voluntarily stop scrolling.
PLEASE do this! It's taking away from everything I loved when I came onto this platform. I came here for longish-form thoughtful writing. I liked it when it was just my inbox.
But honestly, notes are quite good. So much excellent writing.
I love notes and chance to restack...it’s where we meet like-minded folks, where we feel seen ourselves with one little post someone liked! Pay attention to regular people, admin team...not just loudest voices or well-known names.
Hi Hamish, I'm really liking Substack because I can meet great writers, learn about topics I'm really interested in, speak my mind without getting banned, and tap into the global pulse of what's happening around the world. I spend 1-2 hours on this platform everyday and am so grateful for what's available here.
I have only one complaint about how Substack works, it's the search function. To me, it's almost useless. Please make it better so I can search by keywords, phrases that will take me to writers I'm not currently following. Thank you.
Cydney’s critique is spot on - your reply smacks of rationalization & virtue.
As for me, you need to (1) Do something about the comments sections, they need some rules or etiquette; & when there’s anything more than 100 comments, forget it. You would have to be crazy to go through 867 comments - sure you will find a few really good ones, but how did you spend your day?
(2) Your business model needs work. If I paid for all of the stacks that I subscribe to it would cost me about $400 per month. If you really cared for small writers, you would devise some kind of unit price per article, or group / batch pricing . . Let some little guy charge $1 a month for a start up period, don’t force a $5 minimum.
(3) You need to post / update a clear explanation as to how to manage your account (on both the website and app) . . It keeps changing - and make monthly, not founders, the default subscription.
The etiquette is governed by each individual author.
JVL @TheBulwark has 100% mastered how to accomplish a safe, troll free zone. It's kind of miraculous really...
my thoughts exactly on #1 the #2 is a question really worth exploring tho
I’m all for giving writers whatever they need, and I read a lot of substack writers, although only subscribe with money to one (wish I could do more!) But as a reader, my two cents is that the old format was sooo much better. Easier to use, more direct, less clumsy, less cluttered. Much calmer! I have to avoid Substack now just to take care of my nervous system. Don’t laugh, I’m very sensitive lol! But seriously, this is real.
Hamish, I know you all work really hard. And I so appreciate your engaging here and in many other places. It's nice to see you doing this. I will personally say that I'm grateful for Substack, though of course I have critiques, because everyone does, about everything. I think this is a huge growth spurt, but without Substack I know that I'd be...idk. In my room writing on paper and not talking to anyone, because I left all other forms of social media. I mean, I still write on paper, alone, in my room, but being able to be here as well is really special, to be real about it.
Notes made me start looking for alternative places to write. It fundamentally destroys what made substack good.
Substack is now just another shallow addictive noise machine. The STRUCTURE now incentivizes all the things substack was once a reprieve from and You leaving a nice comment does absolutely nothing to change that.
“In the absence of Notes, writers instead tend to get found via other platforms like Instagram and Twitter” translation: We saw other people making money we could make, had no respect for staying in our lane, and have ruined our product while telling the users it was “for their own good”.
> Notes made me start looking for alternative places to write. It fundamentally destroys what made substack good.
Yeah I agree with you. Also this issue made me realise the concept of Elite Capture and why Notes seem to provoke elitism in some...
Thank you for clarifying, @Hamish! I read it as negative but you’re taking it with grace and an open, inquiring mind! Bravo...best kind of leadership!
Thank you, Cydney 🌻
except twitter and instagram are notoriously bad for conversions, aren't they? so in lieu of twitter and instagram we get another "bad at conversions" copycat? certainly there's a better way. or maybe not. most of us are writing for ourselves in any event. face it.
blah, blah , i saw your post on notes yesterday also .
Would love for y’all to roll back the last app update. I hate it as a reader, except for being able to toggle the paid and unpaid publications, that part is good, but I hate the smaller size of posts and thumbnails in the inbox, and the whole notes as homepage thing. Really made me use the app less.
The fiction category is a mess in general ... I wish we could sort by genre, or have some kind of way to find new writers besides scrolling endlessly down the page.
I’m not a writer, just a reader and I feel the same way. It seems that half of the Notes feed is writers asking other writers how to get more subscribers.
😭exactly.
I struggle to know when to use Notes and when to use Chat but I think you’re describing Chat. That’s just for your subscribers.
love this
I came to Substack over 3 years ago and this is all spot on. My writing has stayed pretty much the same. I have a few thousand subscribers, not many of them paid. And I've made a commitment to resist doing what Substack says I should do, which is to market myself ALL THE TIME. No. That's not what I want.
I've also found that there are a few Substacks who position themselves as having the key to success and using that to gain paid subscribers. They give me MLM vibes. Substack loves them and lifts them up bc things like that increase their bottom line.
I've also noticed that pretty much no one on here grew their community on Substack alone. May folks with the orange check marks already had wide readerships or followings on other platforms, or are well known writers or public figures. Many of them received grants from Substack or were paid to start their Substack. No shade at all- many of these folks are incredible and I love them and their writing. But after having been here for so long I stopped believing that I can support myself as a writer here, and I also don't want to, because once you have a massive amount of paying subscribers you are beholden to them in ways that can (but don't always) detract from your own creative work, especially if you're doing work that requires long-term focus and development.
I love my little community of readers, but I know that they love me for me. Just for what I do. I don't write FOR them. I tried to do this for a little bit and the funny thing is that my work wasn't as good or authentic. In this way I think that Substack can be a lovely place of connection. We don't necessarily have to buy in to what the platform is selling, but not doing so may also mean accepting that our growth here is limited. I have a book coming out in a couple years so I do know that things could change, but that has nothing to do with Substack really! I think it's dishonest for anyone, including Substack, to purport that every single person can make a living here. It's just not true. And any Substackers who also perpetuate that myth are filling their pockets with people's mostly unfulfilled hopes and dreams, which imo is unethical, but whatevs, I guess they've got it figured out bc they're making way more money than me!
This is what I’ve been thinking. I think you’re spot on with this. In many ways, I’m a fledgling writer. I hadn’t written a think before October 2019. I started my Substack in order to gain an audience, and while a few (maybe 10) people followed me here from Twitter, the rest of my first subscribers were family. I managed to grow my newsletter to over 400 readers over the year, just from being here, with no other social media to speak of (basically quit Twitter a while ago). For most of the year, Substack has been an amazing experience for me. But I gotta say, ever since Notes launched, my growth has slowed to a crawl. And my mental state got so bad I had to take a six week break starting in October. I love Substack, but I can’t help thinking Notes was a really bad move. So what I’m planning to do this year is to diversify my output and start submitting work to magazines again, in addition to posting regularly on here, and to try to limit my Notes activity. The problem is, ever since the birth of Notes, it’s felt like that is the only avenue for new subscribers right now.
Holy shit. Number 1) I did not expect to see my name up there lol!! I feel like I made it. (Thank u for reading me!!) number 2) this was an EXCELLENT essay. Wowowow. So many thoughts. I feel like I came to substack sort of late and haven’t paid much attention to the actual app itself but I have noticed lately an influx of notes usage. I sort of have to log off from it often because I get overwhelmed and feel like I HAVE to be posting on there. What is that!? How does it have that affect? I guess fear of being left out? Anyway. Yeah it has been super interesting to watch. But fascinating stuff you wrote here! Also the end gave me so much inspo and hope and made me want to start a local zine because you are so right!!!!
BRIANA you are literally one of the writers i admire most on substack, so if that means anything to you then you have indeed made it <3 im so glad you related and YOU SHOULD TOTALLY start a zine!!! or write for mine (｡◕‿◕｡)
That means everything to me!! And omg I didn’t know you had one!!! I would love to!! Email me! Brianasolerphotography@gmail.com
post thanksgiving I WILL!!
This is an interesting discussion. I agree with you on how the vibe has changed, but what does that really mean? Substack was never going to be the promised land. It's the online world! It's crowded. It's crammed with people - many of them creative - all trying to be noticed. The odds are against that, and the more writers that pile on, the more it looks like Times Square on New Year's Eve. So Substack offers Notes as a way to break the logjam, and there you go, it's one more mob.
The online space is awash with beautiful dreamers, somehow hoping to break out and support themselves doing what they love. The fact that so many spend time posting whiny complaints about not getting enough attention is sad, and smells kinda desperate. And nobody subscribed to read that, anymore than they want to look at graphs showing their rising engagement.
Ask any writer who has toiled over a book for years, only to receive more rejection letters than seemed possible. Or a songwriter, dreaming of selling a tune. Pick your platform, youtube, instagram, facebook, twitter. All are filled with marketing lingo, lurid headlines and the like. Soon after the latest Beatles offering, I counted 18 youtubers explaining it. Some videos ran 20 minutes or more to explain a three minute leftover song by a long-gone superstar.
As far as Notes goes: exercise a little self-discipline. Just stop the endless scrolling. Go outside. Take a walk. Leave hour screen alone for a time.
I sympathize with Cydney's disappointment, but am not surprised to read it. This sad song has been in rotation for a long, long time.
Nicely put Terry! I agree with you on this.
So glad I stumbled upon your post...best piece I've read in a while. I got onto Substack with no interest in making any money, but just saw it as a user-friendly platform for putting out our writing. But it's all too easy to get drawn into the likes/restacks/'how can we boost our subs?' cycle? Thanks for the reminder...
it's a trap!!! rage against the substack machine!!!
Great piece! I recently learned that Substack offers classes on stuff like how to write sellable essays. There are also things like Substack growth consultant! I still like Substack because it's a place to put my writing and a good way to meet other like-minded people, but it's also selling an impossible dream. Kind of like MFA programs. At least it's a lot cheaper.
Agree with your last paragraph. My biggest hope for Substack is that I'll meet people with similar writing tastes and ambitions. Even better if they live near where I live. Then maybe we can really start something.
yeah i totally agree, like substack is a good place to house my work i don't necessarily want to try to get published elsewhere, but it's getting to the point where it really takes an active effort not to get sucked into the whole social media aspect of it.
and yeah, it's not like there's *no* possibility of making genuine connections w like-minded people/writers via substack. it can be an avenue to that too... but i just think it's not built to foster that bc platforms that make people content and happy don't drive growth lol. so offline we go!!
I think there might be online spaces where people can be happy, but they aren't venture backed. Check out letterboxd in the film space...never raised VC and has been around for 10+ years. I wonder if something like that is needed in this space..
Cydney -- I'd wager your subscriber numbers got a boost from this, which is awesome. From what I've been able to gather, the vast majority of undiscovered writers here are bump-worthy.
Speaking of vibe, I've got some benevolent energy lately pulling me toward folks who really want to operate outside the system. Or parts of the system. Maybe it's that we're clamoring for attention from the wrong sources, or from sources that were never capable of giving us real attention, emotional attention, heart-seeing. Anyway, here comes your post (ahem...via Notes) and here I go smiling a knowing smile again, because it's on theme.
Yes to real connections, to face-to-face conversations (take that, introversion!), to giving less of a damn what anyone else thinks or how well the algorithm thinks I'm doing. To quote you from another post: "But you know, every time I really lean into what I’m really into, my true aesthetic, I never feel ugly. I always feel hot when I’m being me!"
I hope you and Hamish really do get that coffee. ☕️
always happy to give anyone some benevolent energy
cYDNEY! Sorry my caps lock was on but the sentiment remains the same. This is so good and I think really captures the general feeling of what Substack is becoming. I feel like I'm reading less on Substack and actually staying off the website more because I don't want to get sucked into Notes...
ANYHOO I also think that what you say about IRL stuff at the end is the key, here. I think we are all craving to just exist and connect with people and the best way to do it is in person. As a musician I get to play gigs on a regular basis and talk to people face-to-face, sell my merch and get newsletter signups. That's so much more valuable than being active on Notes, for me.
100000% - and from your newsletter i know you're doing in person gigs all the time, which is part of the reason i feel like i enjoy your work/align w your worldview! like maybe in-person events don't have the same quantitative rewards as putting stuff online, but i've been thinking about when, for example, i did sf zine fest in september. i got maybe 10 new subscribers from that but also a really rich and fulfilling experience for my life. this article has gotten me like 50 new subscribers, but ultimately it is still just on my computer lol.
i just feel like when im scrolling notes, i often like black in and just think, girl.... what are we doing with our time rn
Ugh, this is outstanding. What a perfect distillation of the vibe shift.
I've been on Substack for five years now, and Notes is my most hated feature. I mourned the loss of Twitter, but Notes isn't even a sufficient replacement for it — it feels like the worst collective circle-jerk possible.
Anyway, you have a new reader. I look forward to having you in my inbox.
thanks jeanna, happy to have ya <3
I was a skinny girl who always wanted thicker legs. Stop digging for gold and sell some picks and axes. Keep doing what you are doing! You have a lot to say. I have been trying to find something that I can really sit down and exposit on as the list gets longer or I get scooped or something but like Kanye used to say ,.." when you try hard- that's when you die hard..". Have you ever seen Field of Dreams where the line if you build it they will come is repeated. It's where a guy builds a ball field in the middle of a cornfield in a town where a land baron is trying to buy up the little guy and eventually people come, in very different ways after a series of struggles. You'd have to watch it and Kevin Costners still hot in it and it's extra awesome if you happen to love baseball like I do. I highly recommend it. Stop trying to be the next "it girl" because you're the shit girl. Don't ever stop being original. Keep doing YOUR thing and remember imitation is the best form of flattery. Just keep on and you will get to your goals. I really like what you said about how notes is a feared step away but I have faith and I think there's so many of us here that got away from the other " media that wants our attention like crack for that sweet data" I'm hoping that as you say Hamish and Co will stay true to the game. Just keep doing you. At least you can sit still for extended periods of time and spit game like you did here. Kudos for a good read. Please don't get discouraged because you inspired me and I thought I was late to the game but there's extra innings and double headers and series..I'll seriously go down a sports analogy rabbit hole but all I'm trying to say is keep going especially when you feel like giving up. I will say I'm not seeing my favorite writers and it's looking like the algorithm is needing a tweak in certain aspects and that's why it's feeling that way but don't forget to trip the machine. I'm writing this when I should be making tacos for dinner and getting my kitchen ready and all that but you inspired this girl. So that in my book is awesome. Never give up!! I like your skirt!!
Soooo, fun fact: I started reading this article because someone on my feed restacked it. Imagine my surprise when I see my name mentioned lol. Thank you for reading and thank you for the feature!
This was a great piece and reflects my own sentiments on the matter. I arrived relatively late to substack (almost a year ago) so I don’t know what it was like in the early days, but I can imagine the excitement in “getting in on the ground floor” as well as the disappointment in seeing the founders make some questionable decisions. For now, I love it here but I do sense that shift and it’s unsettling. This is the one place I’ve felt like I didn’t have to pray to the almighty algorithm.
ah I’m glad it made its way to you!! I guess thanks, notes lol but yes I read your piece last week and even though it doesn’t take 100% the same perspective I thought it was so interesting and worth including
I started Substack to write letters to my son. I thought having the audience would help me be consistent provide pressure to produce letters that would be written well. While it’s working well for me, I know I’m being sucked into a machine of trying to gain more readership. I genuinely think people will enjoy my work. But you’re right, the hoops I have to go through to get there there has some long term impact: I’m on the app a lot, I start comparing myself to others, and feel moved to share others work because they share mine.
I have to continue to remind myself why I started this work. At the same time, I want people to pay because I plan on using the funds for my son’s college plan. It’s a tough balance. You gave me a lot to think about.
I agree Marc.... I came to Substack for a larger audience to share my writing...and to find more worthy pieces to read! I love finding writers I who have totally different content than mine... yet their writing grabs me! That’s what a reader/writer connection is .. and feels good. But... getting sucked into “enable paid subscribers, seeing it written on profiles how many they have, posting statistics .... it feels wrong. Thank your paying readers, don’t brag to rest of us!
I feel there’s more kindness and genuineness here, a safe place with fellow writers. Yet I’ve had to block a few folks... like the trolls on IG or FB... “can we be friends” etc! Not cool. Notes and restacks of great writing are welcome, but it’s annoying when someone pops in to just say good morning, share a photo, or sell a book. 🤨
I keep scrolling, looking for writers and titles that grab me, make me want to subscribe and read more. Should there be a promote page perhaps? Thanks to @hamish and @substack team for taking all these comments into consideration.
This was excellent Cydney. I really resonate with the distaste and ickyness of marketing yourself & it’s a big reason I got off twitter.
I find I still spend 95% of my time on Substack reading long form essays and Notes is a good tool for discovery (how I found this and 1-2 high quality essays every day).
No perfect solution but I am very optimistic about Substack and the experience on Notes is so much better than Twitter.
Thank you for writing this :) best essay I’ve read in a while
Your post has given me a good deal to think about, so Thank You!
But, I think my perspective diverges from yours in some ways.
I'm on Substack as a writer, and a reader. As a reader, I find Notes to be of great value. I'm subscribed to a ton of newsletters, usually once in the morning and again in the evening, I go through all I'm subscribed to and read what interests me. Then I switch over to Notes, in search of other good things to read. And I find those good things to read. In fact, that's how I found this essay.
As a writer, I don't find nearly as much value in Notes. I was here long before Notes and when it opened, I noticed a good uptick in subscribers. But that uptick was matched by a downtick in open rates, and my paid subscribers didn't really change. All that was fairly easy to track. I picked up some engaged subscribers that I wouldn't have found otherwise, but not many. So, I use Notes, but as a reader, not as a writer.
Where I truly agree with your essay is in its conclusion. Your thoughts that we get offline and outside. I've got a lot fewer paid subscribers than I'd like, but a lot more than most. Those paid subscribers came to my newsletter not because of whatever I might do on Notes or other Social Platforms, they came because of what I do offline. Out in the real world. That stuff is what translates to paid subscriptions here, at least in my experience.
This is brilliant! Thank you for voicing what I’ve been feeling and ranting about in private but too afraid to say (for fear of upsetting the Substack lords!!)
The app becoming to numbers obsessed and people posting their charts of growth etc etc etc has been really bumming me out recently and stopping me from writing (I touched upon it here: https://catrionainnes.substack.com/p/how-career-comparison-stole-my-joy ) I don’t even know if that link will work in a clickable way so bad I am at being able to play the promotey game... I am presuming so, anyway... you’re so right about moving offline and into the real world. Thank you thank you xxxxx
Oh it did become clickable doh
I read this on my train ride home and as I got off at my stop, the app refreshed and I thought I had lost it. I searched every term I could remember (incl. elite capture) but nothing came up. I asked via Notes (the irony) and someone surfaced it. Thanks for writing something so thought-provoking. Subscribed!!
honestly THAT is a good use of notes though!
I'll just say...well written. I touched on this recently in a piece and then scrolling through notes I found out I wasn't the only one feeling this. Loved your advice. Good vibes your way.